Related to Johnnys show last night

Divorce is not always obtained on the basis of “sexual immorality.”  Does this always violate the divorce sayings in the synoptic gospels and Pauline writings?  Are there any valid reasons for divorce other than “fornication”?  Did Jesus teach that there are no exemptions to the marriage bond other than “fornication” or “adultery”?  When Matthew, Mark, and Luke recorded the divorce sayings, did they consider the pronouncements of Jesus a dissertation on the subject of divorce and remarriage?  Did Jesus contemplate wife abuse, husband abuse, child abuse, desertion, and withholding of conjugal rights?  In Jesus’ response to the Pharisees in Matthew 19:1-12, did Jesus have in mind such crimes as murder and armed robbery?  Did He contemplate these atrocities in His Sermon on the Mount when He discussed the teachings of the Pharisees and Scribes about divorce and remarriage (Matthew 5:31-32)?  Are these hypothetical cases?  Or are these circumstances that need review in making a judgment about the innocent party?  Are these acts of violence included in the word “fornication”?  Or did Jesus exclude every crime except “sexual immorality”?  Or were these words of Jesus simply “overstatement” or “exaggeration” to emphasize the original intent of God?  These are questions that require response.  When one limits divorce and remarriage to “sexual immorality,” one often creates impossible situations for individuals who suffer from circumstances beyond their control.  .One of the divorce sayings (5:31-32) that Matthew records is found in this well-known Sermon.  Some of the most startling uses of exaggeration are found in Jesus’ Sermon.  Through this practice of exaggeration, He captures the attention of His listeners and forcefully brings home His point.Jesus did not seek to lay down a legal pronouncement to cover every hypothetical crisis in the lives of men and women.  To teach that He did is to read more into the text than Jesus himself taught.  How does one know this?  First, it is significant that Mark and Luke leave out the “exemption clause” (Mark 10:10; Luke 16:18). On the other hand, Matthew includes this controversial clause in the Sermon on the Mount and Jesus’ battle with the Jewish leaders (Matthew 5:32; 19:9).  Then, Paul, in his first letter to Corinth, sets forth “desertion” by the unbeliever as another “exemption clause” (1 Corinthians 7:15).   Did he contradict the teachings of Jesus in Matthew 5:32 and 19:9?  Did he contradict Mark 10:10 and Luke 16:18?  Did he understand that Jesus was not giving a dissertation on marriage and divorce?  Did he understand overstatement and hyperbole in the teachings of Jesus?  Listen to Paul’s advice about desertion: “But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace” (1 Corinthians 7:15).  Would this principle also apply in wife battering?  If not, why not?

2 Responses to “Related to Johnnys show last night”

  1. leavethelegalist Says:

    I know many within the church of Christ who disagree. Jesus did not say anything about the woman who might get beat by her husband, nor did He say anything about many other reasons one SHOULD leave over. I do find it interesting that many church of Christ people often pull statements from Christ “prior” to the cross, but then when the case is made from “other churches” about the thief on the cross….it’s like we can put His words aside as meaningless, seeing we have a perfect understanding of His grace in baptism. I have heard many say, well Jesus had the power to forgive while on earth anyway he wanted……..as if He doesn’t now. I would think Him forgiving people before the cross was based upon His work on the cross too….although it hadn’t come yet. Didn’t mean to get off the subject, just making the point how many take “SOME” things Jesus prior to the cross said and let “SOME” things go. It seems to me as well as many other people that Paul gave more information on the subject. This article above is from “someone” who preaches in the church of Christ. I find it most amazing how many within the church of Christ believe on various subjects.

    What about the sinners, who have divorced, remarried, had children?? I know of others who would say they have to separate, seeing they divorced upon reasons not permitted…thus splitting the family apart. Anyone who follows this line of reasoning has really lost grip with Gods grace.

  2. leavethelegalist Says:

    Did Jesus teach that there are no exemptions to the marriage bond other than “fornication” or “adultery”? When Matthew, Mark, and Luke recorded the divorce sayings, did they consider the pronouncements of Jesus a dissertation on the subject of divorce and remarriage? Did Jesus contemplate wife abuse, husband abuse, child abuse, desertion, and withholding of conjugal rights? In Jesus’ response to the Pharisees in Matthew 19:1-12, did Jesus have in mind such crimes as murder and armed robbery? Did He contemplate these atrocities in His Sermon on the Mount when He discussed the teachings of the Pharisees and Scribes about divorce and remarriage (Matthew 5:31-32)? Are these hypothetical cases? Or are these circumstances that need review in making a judgment about the innocent party?

    In 1988, the Montgomery Advertiser (20th of April) published excerpts from a letter by an “abused wife.” She wrote that she “was beaten, stomped, kicked, burned with cigarettes and stabbed.” This is not all! There is much more to this horror. She further describes her mistreatment: “He threw me into a wall so hard that my head went through the paneling. The man was also a gun fanatic. His favorite game when he was drinking was his version of Russian roulette. His gun, my head.”

    Now the dilemma! Does God expect a woman to live with a man like that? Is this woman forbidden by God to divorce this brutal, inhuman, ruthless, savage, uncaring, heartless, cold-blooded, violent, sick person, simply because “sexual immorality” was not involved? If she does divorce, can she remarry without sinning? Many would say bound for life! Why? Well, you know that adultery was not committed!

    Did Jesus include the “exemption” clause in Mark and Luke? No! It is not there. Neither writer chronicles the “exemption” clause. On the other hand, Matthew attaches the “exemption” clause. Why? Does this inclusion in Matthew suggest that he understood the words reported by Mark and Luke to be overstatement? On the one hand, it appears that the words in Mark and Luke are absolute, no exemptions. But, on the other hand, Matthew, with divine authority, interprets Jesus’ words as forbidding divorce, but NOT in an absolute sense as reported by Mark and Luke.[6] For example, Matthew records, “But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery

    How did Paul deal with the issue of defection? Did Paul not know about Jesus’ teachings as recorded by Matthew, Mark, and Luke? Did Paul understand Jesus’ teaching about divorce as overstatement in order to stress the original intent of marriage? Just a cursory reading of Paul’s first letter to Corinth reveals that he did not interpret the divorce sayings in the Synoptics as an absolute statement with no ramifications. When the unbeliever abandons the believer, Paul writes: “But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace” (1 Corinthians 7:15). ‘“Not bound’ . . . almost certainly means free to marry” seeing marriage is whats being addressed in the context.

    Btw, I agree that grace doesnt allow one to do as he pleases-just as grace wouldnt allow a man to do whatever he wants to his wife….and think she has to remained married to him.

    If Jesus had this happen while he were on earth and seen a woman being beat to death by her husband, are you suggesting Jesus would say “woman, you married this man, now get up and let him beat you again and you cant seperate from him, so get use to the beatings”. I think we need to have some common sense on some things.

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